Kollel Iyun Hadaf Makos 002: Ka'asher Zamam through Malkus - Tosfos

 Kollel Iyun Hadaf Makos 002: Ka'asher Zamam through Malkus - Tosfos

 
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Makos 002: Ka'asher Zamam through Malkus - Tosfos

Nati asks:

How can Tosfos say that malkos would be casher zamam when the gmeara says that some people don't have din hazama done to them. That surely implies malkos is not casher zamam? thanks and have a great evening!

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The Kollel replies:

Hi Nati,

Your excellent question is the basis for a topic well-spoken of in the Yeshiva world. The question is: Is the Malkus given in this case due to the Lav of Edim Zomemim, or does the verse of "v'Hitzdiku" teach that even though the Lav of "Lo Ta'aneh" is a Lav she'Ein Bo Ma'aseh (which is usualy exempt from Malkus), it is still punishable with Malkus? Some say that these two opinions are the opinions in the two answers of Tosfos. The answer you brought maintains that the Malkus comes as a substitute punishment for the Hazamah, while the following answer maintains that the Malkus is for the Lav of the Edus Sheker, regardless of the special addition of Edim Zomemim. It is important to add that these two opinions are not only a theoretical discussion. If we say that the Malkus comes as a Hazamah punishment, all the special conditions of Hazamah need to be verified before we can carry out the Malkus. For example, the special Halachah of "Ka'asher Zamam v'Lo Ka'asher Asah" would apply, and so would the Halachah that the punishment is given only if both of the Edim are found to be Zomemim.

Many, or even most, of the Rishonim seem to hold like the first opinion, while others hold like the second. According to the first opinion, we have to say ("b'Dochak") that the Gemara does not mean that the Malkus is not under the Lav of Edim Zomemim, but just that it is not the typical Hazamah punishment. Some bring a proof from the words of the Gemara:

ויש עדים זוממין שאין עושים בהם דין הזמה כל עיקר

from which we can see that the Gemara is still calling them "Edim Zomemim" but they do not get the regular Din Hazamah.

The bottom line is that your question is better than the answer, but it is not based on a mistake, but rather on the right understanding in the Tosfos, or at least the right one according to many comentators.

Kol Tuv,
Aharon Steiner

 

Please Mr. Netanyahu, Mr. Ben Gvir, Mr. Smotrich and Mr. Gallant unite and bring Hashem’s Righteousness back to the Har HaBayit?

Under HaShem’s Righteousness the Har HaBayit shall become a Prayer House for all peoples. Jews, Muslims, and Christians when they put away Avoda Zara and their false doctrines……

By annulling that covenant made with the Islamic authorities in ’67 on the Har Habayit and all other covenants, banning all crimes and abominations by PA, Hamas and Islamic Jihad with an Iron fist declaring Jewish Sovereignty in all the Land Hashem gave the Jewish People in ’67.


בבקשה מר נתניהו, מר בן גביר, מר סמוטריץ' ומר גלנט תתאחדו והחזירו את צדקת ה' להר הבית,
?

תחת צדקת השם הר הבית יהפוך לבית תפילה לכל העמים: יהודים, מוסלמים ונוצרים כשהם מסירים עבודה זרה ואת דוקטרינות השקר שלהם...

על ידי ביטול הברית שנכרתה עם השלטונות האיסלאמיים בשנת 67' על הר הבית וכל שאר הבריתות, איסור על כל הפשעים והתועבות שנעשות על ידי הרשות הפלסטינית, חמאס והג'יהאד האסלאמי. והכרזת ריבונות יהודית על כל ארץ ישראל.

 


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